I do not hold any ill feelings towards the opposite, even if it is a murderer, even if they are drug (smugglers) because I know the process of law has been done, has been carried out. In the case of Kevin Barlow and Brian Chambers, their arrest for heroin possession in Malaysia came as a shock. Moran, in his Guide to Australian TV Series, suggests that Barlow and Chambers 'is less interesting than its two fictional successors, Ring of Scorpio and Bangkok Hilton ', in part, he . Over his career, he directly hanged 70 people, and supervised about 60 more. 1986: Kevin Barlow and Brian Chambers, Dadah is Death. Since 1975, when . Find Barlow And Chambers Execution stock photos and editorial news pictures from Getty Images. [24] Relations between the two nations were reportedly affected for a decade afterwards. The arresting officer testified that he saw Barlow holding the maroon suitcase and shivering while waiting to board the plane. Two Australian heroin traffickers, Brian Chambers and Kevin Barlow, were hanged shortly before dawn today after a flurry of last-minute appeals to the Malaysian authorities for mercy or a stay of execution failed, prison officials said. She was first arrested in early 2015. Mrs. Barlow said she still believes her son is innocent and is proud of him. drug trafficker. In the case of Kevin Barlow and Brian Chambers, their arrest for heroin possession in Malaysia came as a shock. Contribute to chinapedia/wikipedia.en development by creating an account on GitHub. We will explore the lives of Kevin Barlow and Geoff Chambers, the parties involved in the ill fated drug run, what lead them both to play Russian roulette with their lives as well as the political storm that engulfed Australia and the United Kingdom during the 1986 execution.We will also analyse the media reaction, the role that the media played in the men's execution as well as the desperate and in vain legal challenges to save the lives of both men.Furthermore we will examine the impact that the executions had on the families of Barlow and Chambers, both financially, psychologically and physically.We will also explore the after effects of the executions and the tv movie Dadah is Death and the books produced after the execution.Please don't forget to comment and like the video and subscribe as well as hit that bell icon to be notified of when new videos come out!Media footage is copyright Channel 7 Australia, Thames TV, BBC, Channel 9, Channel 10 and the ABC Australia. Or by navigating to the user icon in the top right. Seven prisoners once tried to escape from the Row in Huntsville - with one shoving magazines and newspapers under his clothes to help him roll over razor-wire fences. Revealed: The new '23' number plates the DVLA deems offensive and has banned including EU23 OFF and GO23 HEL, The secret WhatsApp mode that lets you EDIT texts after you've sent them. Brian Geoffrey Chambers Jr., 29, and John Kevin Barlow, 28, were the first Westerners executed under Malaysia's tough anti-drug laws. Stream ad-free or purchase CD's and MP3s now on Amazon.com. Former crime reporter Michelle Lyons, who witnessed nearly 300 executions in Texas, US, reveals the desperate acts of Death Row prisoners who refused to accept their fate Kevin Barlow Photos and Videos. From the start, orders given by their paymasters were torn in shreds. We cannot consider the color of the skin, philosophy or any other matter in our fight against this evil.. As Australian public support for Barlow and Chambers was minimal, Malaysia risked little diplomatic damage from carrying out the execution.[19]. Organize, control, distribute and measure all of your digital content. There they were imprisoned in Pudu Prison. She was fearful he might commit suicide before all avenues of appeal were exhausted. By mid 1986 Malaysia had hanged about 35 people in ten years, mostly Chinese Malaysians convicted of drug trafficking. Gurule, the only one of the seven-strong group to keep going, stuffed magazines and newspapers under his clothing so he could roll over two razor-wire security fences. Chillingly, the key was to a set of handcuffs. The Getty Images design is a trademark of Getty Images. The next day the prisoner wakes and is led into the gallows. One case was adjourned in uproar last week until July 14 after the Attorney-General, Tan Sri Abu Talib Othman, had told the court that the men's death warrant had been processed despite an earlier pledge that it would be withheld pending litigation. rting 141.9 g of heroin. [31], In June 1988 in Perth, Western Australia, John Asciak was found guilty of conspiring with Barlow and Chambers to import 179 grams of heroin. Streamline your workflow with our best-in-class digital asset management system. The two men became the first Westerners to be executed under Malaysia's new tougher laws for drug offences. "It was believed he had planned to try to escape but he hadn't anticipated being restrained with two sets," says the mum, who lives in Huntsville and has penned a book about her life as an execution witness, called Death Row: The Final Minutes. steve whitham reports /various shots covered bodies of kevin barlow and brian chambers with feet exposed as they are removed from a truck/ file news stories / interview barbara barlow/ various shots sue chambers walking/ close up sue chambers written statement/ wide shot crowd outside pudu prison in the early morning / various shots karpal singh attempt to enter prison/ close up cell light . "Brian Chambers and Kevin Barlow executed in Malaysia".The Guardian.London. [4] In 1980 Chambers imported heroin to Australia using body packing techniques, placing the drugs in his anus. "He had wrapped himself in magazines and newspapers so he wouldn't get cut up.". ', One Nigerian man cried for his entire final day after being told he would die, the hangman recalled, The hangmen said his decision to follow a career as an executioner came out of a sense of duty to his nation, 'Women are always (more) well prepared (for death) than men, I noticed that,' the executioner said. The two men became the first Westerners to be executed under Malaysia's new tougher laws for drug offences. [10], The proposed drug run had been openly discussed by John Asciak and Kevin Barlow in the household of Debbie Colyer-Long prior to the event. They waited until the 26-year-old was joined at the desk by his friend Brian Chambers, then they pounced. While he had surrendered during the attempted Death Row breakout two years earlier, one of his fellow prisoners - Latino murderer Martin Gurule - had not. The two men became the first Westerners to be executed under Malaysia's new tougher laws for drug offences that . Galbally had urged Singh to file an additional ground for appeal for their client. Chambers had previously had a meeting with Barlow in Perth to approve him for the job. But at the last minute, Barbara decided against giving Barlow the poison. 1 reference. Click here to go to economictimes.com Site will load in seconds. We also may change the frequency you receive our emails from us in order to keep you up to date and give you the best relevant information possible. Access the best of Getty Images with our simple subscription plan. You will not find a better explanation or analysis of this haunting case which divided Australia and turned both men and their families into political pawns. 2014-Pres United States Air Force Academy, CO, Brig Gen Andy Armacost. Reporters outside the prison saw a black prison truck leave it at 6:50 a.m. A prison officer, who would not give his name, said the two Australians were executed at 6 a.m., and their bodies were being taken to the government hospital mortuary for a postmortem before being released to relatives. 'Of course there is emotion there,' he said. BARLOW & CHAMBERS: A LONG WAY FROM HOME (Part 2) (Final) (1988) by Michael Brown, Matt Carroll, Moya Iceton, Steve Krantz, Jerry London, Charles Wang. 'He killed women, he killed children,' the executioner said. (b) offer to traffic in a dangerous drug; or Mr Karpal, who helped Barlow to draw up his will on death row, said he had told him how he had failed to see the Malaysian Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Mahathir Mohamad, to plead for a stay of execution. Under Section 39B(2) of the Dangerous Drugs Act 1952, "Any person who contravenes any of the provisions of subsection (1)[1] shall be guilty of an offence against this Act and shall be punished on conviction with death" Barlow was born in the United Kingdom in Stoke-on-Trent and held dual British and Australian nationalities. "[20], Through the ordeal of Barlow and Chambers, their mothers, Sue Chambers and Barbara Barlow, publicly supported the defence of innocence. The board rejected an appeal for clemency on June 21. [28] More than 50 years ago Ron Barlow founded his St. Louis photo studio on the promise of providing world-class photography to every client. This service is provided on News Group Newspapers' Limited's Standard Terms and Conditions in accordance with our Privacy & Cookie Policy. Two Australian heroin traffickers, Brian Chambers and Kevin Barlow, were hanged shortly before dawn today after a flurry of last-minute appeals to the Malaysian authorities for mercy or a stay of. Capital punishment is legal in a total of 30 states. Prison guards even put him in a cage to stop him from fighting. (c) do or offer to do an act preparatory to or for the purpose of trafficking in a dangerous drug. While she felt no sympathy for some inmates, she says she had a harder time with other executions where she felt the prisoner wouldn't re-offend if they were released. There were six people all together on one occasion, three on another. In London, Mrs. Thatcher office said in a statement that she had appealed to Malaysia to save Barlows life on humanitarian grounds. Share In 1986, ABC News reported on the execution by hanging in Malaysia of convicted drug smugglers Kevin Barlow and Brian Chambers. They travelled by train together to Penang, Malaysia, where the deadly cache of heroin had been buried on a beach. Stoke-on-Trent, England, United Kingdom. "He was moving his mouth in a strange way. The speakers at the conference unanimously passed an emergency resolution expressing their "grave view" of the statement. Chambers had been given details of where the drugs were hidden. . pp. Despite fierce lobbying for clemency from the Australian government, Malaysian officials refused to budge. They were both found guilty on July 23 and, one week later, sentenced to death by hanging. However, fearing her son would use it before all avenues of appeal had been exhausted she made the last-minute decision to keep the secret solution to herself. The information Barlow gave to Mengler during this interview was later corroborated by Debbie Colyer-Long. Anybody who violates Malaysias anti-drug law will have to face the consequence, Mahathir said in a speech at a drug rehabilitation center on Sunday. I made this mistake, I'm very sorry son.'. Collect, curate and comment on your files. Interactive map reveals when you may see SNOW. Also find news, photos and videos on Barlow-and-Chambers-execution Edition IN IN US Sign In TOI Briefs Videos City Metro Cities mumbai delhi bengaluru Hyderabad kolkata chennai Other Cities agra agartala ahmedabad Posted by ; dollar general supplier application; Barlow was a mule and a stupid one, persuaded to make the trip by John Asciak - a key figure in a Perth-based organised crime syndicate. Two Australians are facing the death penalty after their appeal against a conviction for smuggling heroin was rejected by a Malaysian court. For other uses, see, Section 39B(1): In 1983, at the height of Musarri's peddling powers, Perth's Brian Geoffrey Shergold Chambers and fellow Australian Kevin John Barlow were recruited to bring a batch of heroin to WA that had been stolen and buried under a tree on Ferringhi beach in Penang. 'We inform the family one week earlier, for preparation by the family (with) what they want to do with the body,' the hangman said. In an exclusive interview in Kuala Lumpur, the retired former chief hangman, 61, said the executions always begin at dawn, just after the morning prayers. [20], After the rejection of the appeal, Australia's Foreign Minister Bill Hayden contacted the Governor of Penang asking that the sentence be commuted to imprisonment on humanitarian grounds. We are no longer accepting comments on this article. Chambers was represented at the appeal by Perth barrister Ron Cannon. Something went wrong, please try again later. [2] The executioner was Rajendran Kuppasamy, who retired later that year. De to mnd blev de frste vesterlndinge, der blev henrettet i henhold til Malaysias nye . The conference felt that such comments should not have come from a national leader who upheld the law and that the statement had touched on the sovereignty of Malaysia's laws and the legal system. She says of the gas: "It makes it hard to breathe - officers would have masks on to protect themselves. Single mother faces 170 parking fine after overstaying at McDonald's for just 14 minutes while she treated Man had sex with his wife on bollard in protest after it had been erected by neighbour to stop him parking What will the next pandemic be? He bypassed the luggage scanning area and approached the check-in desk. The prison was overcrowded. After the result was publicised Galbally suggested that Barlow would have been found not guilty had the medical evidence he wanted introduced been admitted by the court. 'You have to be very, very strong. Home (current) Blog Crimes Criminals Groups Barlow and Chambers execution . An Australian grandmother will be given just 24-hours notice before she is hanged for smuggling drugs into Malaysia, the country's self-described 'number one' executioner has revealed. BBC News. Between early 1981 and the end of 1983 Chambers had made at least twelve trips abroad to transport heroin to Australia. But the inmate does not learn they will be put to death until 24 hours before they are hanged. The hanging was carried out two years after the Barlow and Chambers execution. Brooklyn celebrates turning 24 by heading out in Paris with wife Nicola Peltz and Victoria Beckham leads the sweet birthday messages for son Brooklyn's 24th as the family finally reunite in Nicola Peltz's fans question if 'feud' with mother-in-law Victoria Beckham is REALLY over as she posts Will El Salvador's new mega-prison turn into a bloodbath? Barlow was later introduced to Chambers in Perth. Advertisement. On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. Revealed: The top 10 fastest-growing destinations for UK pensioners retiring overseas, When will the Beast from the East be at YOUR door? The executioner who spoke to Daily Mail Australia killed his first inmate - a drug-smuggling Thai actor - when he was 26-years-old. Moment British man is arrested at Colombian airport as he tries to fly to London with 23 kilos of cocaine Do YOU know your Adam and Eve from your Ruby Murray? Only people of the media are allowed to take pictures. Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning. [17] Barlow's lawyer Karpal Singh was assisted by Melbourne barrister Frank Galbally at the appeal. Victims: Unknown: Born: 1957/1958 . He broke down and wept in her arms in the dock when three appeals judges upheld the conviction. The hangmen said he did his work out of a sense of duty to the nation. PURCHASE A LICENCE. Colyer-Long's brother-in-law Trevor Lawson learned of it and had informed the National Crime Authority of the scheme. Dressed in prison garb dyed black with markers, the group carefully placed cushions and sheets in their beds before leaving their cells for dinner and hiding in a recreation yard. ; Having met in Singapore, Barlow and Chambers travelled by train to Penang in Malaysia. On July 7, 1986 four months short of three years after being snared the drug traffickers were hanged at Pudu Prison, Kuala Lumpur. He used the same technique in 1981 when, on transit in Singapore, customs officers detected two vials of personal-use heroin in his jacket pocket. Activists have long criticised the hardline policy as 'barbaric, cruel and inhumane', but it has broad public support. The two men were nabbed together at the Penang island airport with 179 grams of heroin in their packs. Statements. Benchmarks . the state in which Chambers and Barlow were arrested. [29], After their sentencing an investigative trip by Detective Sergeant Carl Mengler of the National Crime Authority of Australia had included interviews with various Australians imprisoned in South East Asia for drug trafficking. He had also been threatened with the repossession of his car. After the argument Singh finally left the room, warning Galbally over his shoulder not to criticise Malaysia's British-based legal system or suggest Australia's was superior. It's inhumane. The prison starts preparing for the hanging one month before. 'We inform the family the execution will be carried out, in this prison, between this time, at this date. "Kevin Barlow" redirects here. Welcome to the Coronation! [7], Australian Federal Police denied that they had tipped off Malaysian Police about the claims made by Trevor Lawson. By 1986 it held around 6,000 prisoners, almost 50 of whom were drug dealers sentenced to death. 'Immediately after seeing the director, they (are) taken out to a room, then the family comes in,' the official said. Boards are the best place to save images and video clips. [13], Taken to an interview room they were asked to open the suitcases. But why do people follow such a career in the first place? Prior to his arrest three or four Penang drug dealers had been detained and interrogated about Chambers' movements. April 22, 1992 12 AM PT. barlow and chambers execution photos. Singh had said there was "little point" doing this, as no fresh evidence was involved. Hawke later described the hanging as "barbaric", a remark which chilled Australian relations with Malaysia. Michelle says: "His execution was so unnerving because when he was making his last statement he was murmuring something. Chambers and Barlow were sentenced under a 1983 law which mandates the death penalty for convicted drug traffickers. In the case of Kevin Barlow and Brian Chambers, their arrest for heroin possession in Malaysia came as a shock. She was prepared to help her son take his own life. 2023 Getty Images. KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) _ Two Australians convicted of drug trafficking were hanged at dawn Monday despite pleas from foreign governments to spare them. The Barlow and Chambers execution refers to the hanging on July 7, 1986 in Malaysia of two Australian citizens, Kevin John Barlow and Brian Geoffrey Chambers of Perth, Western Australia, for the drug trafficking of 141.9 g of heroin. Announcer: Allah Akbar! [citation needed], Chambers and his then girlfriend, Susan Cheryl Jacobsen, decided to move to Melbourne to escape Perth's organised crime scene. 1986: Kevin Barlow and Brian Chambers. Access the best of Getty Images with our simple subscription plan. The Barlow and Chambers executions were the hangings in 1986 by Malaysia of two Westerners, Kevin John Barlow (Australian and British) and Brian Geoffrey Shergold Chambers (Australian) of Perth, Western Australia, for transporting 141.9 g of heroin. He said "It is a generative word that passes judgement on our societysomething we cannot accept and did not expect from such a friendly country." They said it gave the impression Australia belittled Malaysian law and "considers the capital punishment meted out to the two as uncivilised and unsuitable for this day and age." Chambers was represented at the trial by Rasiah Rajasingham and Barlow by Karpal Singh. [19], They sought an appeal against the original sentence on the grounds that the original trial judge had drawn unwarranted inferences from circumstantial evidence and had erred on several points. Barlow was not cuffed but used crutches due to a groin injury. Wilkerson, who shot dead a jewellery shop worker in Houston nearly 30 years ago, tried to escape from the Row on Thanksgiving night 1998 along with six other prisoners. He avoided the luggage scanner and nervously approached the check-in desk. The officials spoke to reporters through a peep-hole in the massive steel gates of Pudu gaol, Kuala Lumpur. Barlow was present but had not known the location of the heroin. NSE Gainer-Large Cap . The drug habits of Barlow and Chambers were likewise not mentioned at the trial as it would have prejudiced their cases, and exposed the heroin trade inside Malaysian prisons. 'Anyone from the family can come, no problem That part is always very emotional. The estimated 1346 Malaysian prisoners currently on death row face a long wait, the executioner said. He bypassed the luggage scanning area and approached the check-in desk. One act of violence shattered so many lives. One notorious mass-murderer even spat in the hangman's face as the cover was placed over his head. They can ask for a last meal, although they are by no means guaranteed to get what they asked for, the hangman said. "He had vowed he was going to fight and he did. "[7], Barlow and Chambers were hanged in Pudu Prison on 7 July 1986. Barlow was wearing a blindfold when he was executed by hanging ( Image: Channel 7 Malaysia) Don't Miss Barlow, from Stoke-on-Trent, and Australian Brian Chambers, were the first Westerners to. The informers' evidence was kept secret at the trial. 'That is the best time,' said the officer, who asked his name not to be published for safety reasons. Millions of high-quality images, video, and music options await you. Photo: Lucinda Devlin/Galerie m Bochum. Unable to work because of injury, he was sweet-talked into his one and only drug run by underworld figures in Perth. This means that we may include adverts from us and third parties based on our knowledge of you. Built in 1849 to house up to 350 prisoners, in 1984 it housed 2000 people including women and babies. [8] After the Singapore meeting they disobeyed orders by travelling together and sharing the same hotel rooms; they had been directed to stay apart. [7], Though Barlow and Chambers later testified they were tourists travelling alone who met by chance in Singapore and then opted to travel together, their meeting in Singapore in October 1983 was planned by Asciak. The ex-hangman opened up about the country's secretive execution process after a Malaysian court sentenced Sydney woman Maria Exposto, 54, to death. This Little Piggy Stayed Home. Putin's foreign minister Sergei Lavrov provokes gales of laughter as he tells audience the West started Find out what Uber drivers really think of you! Michelle writes in her book that it "troubled me so much seeing the inmate walk unrestrained to the gurney, hopping up there and offering his arms with no hesitation". During one of these events, she watched through one-way glass as the inmate calmly walked into the death chamber, hopped on the gurney and held his arms out wide. [2] Barlow's family made appeals to Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Margaret Thatcher to make a protest about the impending execution, and Australian Minister for Foreign Affairs Bill Hayden made an appeal for clemency to the Malaysian government, which was rejected. instance of. 7 months ago. 35 relations. The board rejected an appeal for clemency on June 21. [3] The executions caused public outcry and strained political relations between Australia and Malaysia at the time. During his time behind bars, Graham drew support from the public and celebrities, with many claiming he was innocent of his crime. 18 December 1985.Retrieved 27 June 2009. A week after the escape, he was found drowned in a river. [7] Barlow was initially confident the drug run would be successful. For other inquiries, Contact Us. [5], The drug run was organised by Perth criminal John Asciak. The Prestigious school where Princes William and Harry were educated is considering admitting girls, EPHRAIM HARDCASTLE: Prince William's potentially awkward visit to homelessness charity, 'Eviction' is the greatest gift King Charles can give Harry and Meghan - to the Duke and Duchess of Endless Grievance there's good money in playing the victim, writesMAUREEN CALLAHAN, Plastic surgeon reveals the one exercise that makes you AGE FASTER - saying he tells his patients to stop the popular workout if they want to avoid a 'gaunt, old face', Traveller shares her 'secret' hack to bag an entire row of seats on a flight: 'I can't believe this works'. Others have had to be gassed out of their cells with Mace-like spray, while one killer even stole a key to a set of handcuffs, which he spat out with his dying breath. Singh, an attorney representing Barlow, said he would return once more to the prison to help his client write a will. It's not easy to become an executioner. [18], On 1 August 1985 Barlow and Chambers attended their sentencing hearing to learn they had received the death sentence by hanging. For faster navigation, this Iframe is preloading the Wikiwand page for Barlow and Chambers execution. The Barlow and Chambers executions were the hangings in 1986 by Malaysia of two Westerners, Kevin John Barlow (Australian and British) and Brian Geoffrey Shergold Chambers (Australian) of Perth, Western Australia, for transporting 141.9 g of heroin. The governor, as head of the Penang Pardons Board, could stay the execution. That considerably cranked up the risk of detection. Sometimes, the executioner said, it's all over 'ten seconds' after the prisoner steps into the chamber. A short scene from the 1988 Australian movie Dadah Is Death otherwise known as Barlow and Chambers: A Long Way From Home starring Sarah Jessica Parker. "He was still wrapped up when he jumped in the river - he sunk like a rock," says Michelle. On August 1, 1985, Kevin Barlow and Brian Chambers were sentenced to death for drug trafficking. The appeal failed on December 18, 1985, and Chambers openly wept in the dock. The jail has received a death penalty warrant, the director tells them, and 'yes, your family knows already'. No man has looked more guilty. [9], Barlow was a novice on his first drug run; he was convinced by organisers that as Chambers was an experienced drug courier the plan would proceed smoothly. barlow and chambers execution photosokinawan sweet potato tempura recipe. Select from premium Barlow And Chambers Execution of the highest quality. Before long, he was dead, given the ultimate punishment for his horrific crime. [16], Their trial started 17 July 1985 at the High Court of Penang. They then sprinted for freedom, but were spotted by officers who opened fire. The Barlow and Chambers execution refers to the hanging in 1986 by Malaysia of two Australian citizens Kevin John Barlow and Brian Geoffrey Shergold Chambers of Perth Western Australia for the drug trafficking of 141.9 g of heroin. How do you think it f***ing feels? snapped Chambers angrily. barlow and chambers execution photos But in 2016, Michelle was dealt her own heartbreak when her teen stepdaughter Kristine was shot dead. [27], The then UMNO Youth Leader Anwar Ibrahim also said use of the term "barbaric" was regrettable. Kevin John Barlow; Born: 1958 Stoke-on-Trent, United Kingdom: Died: 7 July 1986 (aged 28) Pudu Prison, Malaysia: Conviction(s) Drug trafficking: Penalty: Death: Status: Executed . Barlow and Chambers were arrested at Penang airport on November 9, 1983 and hanged on July 7, 1986 - the first Westerners to be executed in Malaysia since World War II. The Getty Images design is a trademark of Getty Images. Appeals are pending in the other cases. Abstract. Inside were he bodies of Barlow and Chambers their tagged and exposed feet providing proof to the waiting mean and women of the press that Malaysian justice had indeed been done. Drug smuggling carries a mandatory death penalty in Malaysia. The Stoke mans distraught mother, Barbara, hatched a desperate plan to spare her son from the gallows. More than 30 years ago two Australians, Kevin Barlow and Brian Chambers, were arrested at Penang Airport with 142 grams of pure heroin. 2023 Getty Images. The evidence he wanted heard at the appeal was that Barlow had a nervous shake; the prosecution had used Barlow's shake at the time of his arrest as grounds for his guilt. The two men became the first Westerners to be executed under Malaysia's new tougher laws for drug offences that prescribe death for anyone convicted of having over 15 . Today his son, Patrick Barlow, carries on the family tradition of helping brands connect with customers through impeccably produced, award-winning photography and video productions. Explore Barlow-and-Chambers-execution profile at Times of India for photos, videos and latest news of Barlow-and-Chambers-execution. But there were to be no more chances for Perth man Kevin Barlow, condemned to death for drug trafficking. Chambers was given directions to the site and dug up the package. Moment drunk-driver weaves erratically across road moments before he killed mother-of-one, 37, and dragged Are YOU a romantic comedy buff?