Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. Zero in the affirmative. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. The new guy sucks. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. About $300. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. Canadian soldier. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. SIG Sauer, a German weapons maker with its U.S. headquarters in Newington, N.H., issued a statement Friday in response to a CBC News report earlier this week that revealed the Nov. 5, 2020, incident and the fact the weapon, the SIG P320, had been withdrawn from service while the military conducts an investigation. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. Whether or not the suits have merit. MIM strikers made in India and put into Sigs. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. For instance theres Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh.. Instead we see a Sig that is ran by Mr. Cohen of Kimber fame have repeated quality and product development failures. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. And thats just my opinion. The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. The safety WILL prevent the gun from firing with a trigger pull when activated, but it should never come to that. If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. Police Department, was wounded when his P320 duty gun discharged without a trigger pull while he was carrying it in a gym bag wrapped carefully with a cloth. Officer Collette was wounded in his left leg. The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. UPDATE:We were just made aware of YouTuber BoomStick Tactical who produced this video the day before our post published. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. Face it, you paid far too much for a plastic gun. Theyve gotten tons of contracts because the gun is cheap, cheap, cheap to make. Dude, your story is THREE years old. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. But Im observant enough to see the same voices that said in 1985 that This new fangled Glock is a just a plastic toy! L. LRRifleman . I sold that pistol when I got it back. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. Is it? It has nothing to do with Glock. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. The problem was strikers. There are tens of millions of gun owners, far more than there are cops, and the VAST majority of those folks buy their guns and drop them a nightstand drawer or up on a closet shelf and leave it until theyre needed. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. congrats. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! Not sure why it wont let me reply to you, but Ill reply to myself in the hope youll get it. Wont last!. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. Whats the difference between a $600 Sig and a $300 Taurus? Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. That a shirt tail or jacket cinch cord slips into a holster. These officers are not gunfighters. Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of . The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. to docile, too subtle, to contextual. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. The use of a modified [SIG] P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge.. Both companies, instead, took to pro-gun industry forums to offer a rebuttal, giving no opportunity to answer questions. RKC, the first time someone presented me with a 1911 whose trigger rivaled my Pythons single action, I started wondering about that. . The design was incorporated from Bruce Grays trigger kit around the time of the original drop safety fix. Its hard to say yet but with anything follow the basic safety rules. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. (c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another . Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. If you want to find the lowest form of life on the planet interview any C.E.O. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. But that's not working in the P320, he said. The military has found that the pistol has a tendency to eject live rounds among other issues. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. I dont own a P320. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. Where is this lightning striking twice? It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. And have the dropping 320 go off? I agree that Glock is sitting on their laurels and has been for decades. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. They admitted their problem and fixed it. It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. He is acting as a consultant in the Collette suit that was filed last week. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. They function as commanded every time. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. ALL OF THEM. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. Fair enough. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. Its difficult to believe thats a coincidence. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Before the madness SIGS were expensive. There was no holster involved. All chasing that pot of gold at the end of litigation.. Not that big of a stretch when considering the lawyers beating the bushs for clients to add to the lawsuits, and the fact many of them will lose their jobs if its proven to NOT be the gun, but instead negligence on their part. The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. By hoping Sig gets taken down for the P320, theyre actually setting up their own pet brand to be the next on the chopping block. He wasnt aware of it until contacted earlier this week by CBC News and suggested it was relevant in ongoing litigation in the U.S. We look forward to reviewing the incident in discovery in the United States, he said Friday. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. Its a novelty, its got issues! I didnt even touch it! I agree. He probably had a double until it was over. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. First off, no joke on me. It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. The second version emphasized the upgrade to fix the drop safety issue and notes that Harrison believes that problem has been fixed. Weird how that might happen. You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. The Hide Armory. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. He would have been booted after the first time, but being a cop comes with some special privileges. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . . I carry one in my front pocket routinely. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! Let us look at the history of other consumer products. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. U.S. lawsuits three changes to the original design. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. JTF-2 is the only unit in. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. As for Seals they have their own contract with Glock but can carry anything they want. The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. 3. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. BAM. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. Grow up, you aint all that! in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . Time will tell if no. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. This website has been messed up all week so that might be the problem in replying. Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. People who know how to handle guns prudently and safely. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. I went to an outdoor public range with a local SWAT entry team leader. One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. Ill go so far as to say the first batch of Sig P320s did nothing wrong. Ron, So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. Who knows. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. On Nov. 5, 2020, a recently-purchased SIG Sauer P320 pistol went off unexpectedly at a training range in Dwyer Hill, outside of Ottawa. The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. Ditto; that's what i was getting at earlier Bear007 Custom Aug 25, 2021 #18 How about something more relevant. ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. But now, P320 is the subject. To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. D. After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. The main difference is that the M&P never had the problem the p320 did with trigger mass. With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. in Capitalvania. The new Kirk does suck. It was expensive. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. The weapons are currently on the shelf and the soldiers have returned to using their older model SIG P226s.