The buttplate had a thin rubber pad smoothly integrated; it was more friendly to clothing or bare skin for that matter. I had several concerns due to its comically short barrel, its accuracy, reliability and velocity. I got several other Sigs (all calibers of P320, P365, P365xl, Xfive P320 Legion, and recently P226 Legion). That said, and this being Wilson, dont expect some off-the-rack experience with the gun. For more information, please see our To carry the Rattler discreetly, I used Eberlestocks Combat Office Brief, which represents a typical messenger bag, as well as several other covert packs in my inventory, including some camera bags. To activate it from either side of the gun, I mounted its tape switch on the Rattlers Picatinny top rail. New Shooters Guide: What Is a Pistol Caliber Carbine? The 300 Blackout pistol model is no different, but few shooters miss the bells and whistles with a gun that goes bang with every trigger pull and hits the mark. One answer would be to take advantage of the latest technology in terms of manufacturing, helpful features and improved ammunition. Twist rate on bullets is a debatemine is 1:7 on 9 barrel. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, it's perfect. Subscriber Services. In addition to all that, for the features you get on this pistol, it is priced very reasonably. The Gunfighter grip offers an extended backstrap to shield the web of the hand and the knurled side panels that provided excellent traction. Type: Semi-Auto Pistol. The grip was certainly not traditional, offering a very friendly profile, including a pinkie ledge, at the bottom and an extended backstrap up over the web of the hand. Dependent on load, firearm and environment, expect anywhere from a 250 fps to 350 fps difference between the lengths. This article on theSIG MCX Rattler is from the May/June 2018 issue of Tactical Life magazine. Higher-level shooters might prefer a hard break without overture, but its certainly not a distraction that will inhibit the experienced shooter. Please give me your thoughts and opinions! Compare specifications of Sig Sauer SIGMCX Rattler 300 AAC Blackout PMCX-300B-5B-TAP-PSB and Springfield Saint Victor Pistol 300 AAC Blackout STV909300B. The barrel is tipped with a special version of Maxim Defenses interesting Hate Brake. So was the grip and handguard. Ive also thought the same thing about 20-round magazines in a full-size AR. The Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW brings to mind a saying from Rush Limbaugh: Illustrating absurdity by being absurd. It offers, at least when compared to a standard rifle/carbine, compromised ballistics and a nearly comical appearance, and I havent done executive protection work in quite some time. Despite the unique internals, the MCXs controls are similar to a standard ARs, which helps because most shooters are familiar with the latters manual of arms. The free-floated handguard offered Keymod machining on three sides, and the Picatinny top rail extended 11 inches from the receiver. Sig isnt the most popular on the forum, but Ive never had an issue with my M400. Certainly, you get all the nimbleness and convenience of the configuration in 5.56. Barrels with twist rates of 1:8 inches and even 1:7 inches have replaced the original-issue lands and grooves that spun the bullets at a rate of 1:9. Written and photographed by Roger Eckstine, using evaluations from Gun Tests team testers. I wrote SilencerCo another letter, under a different email. So goes the AR-556 line of ARs. Your welcome BET7, I've looked at the Christensen Arms and pretty sweet , Also was dead set on getting a Danial defense DD4 after shooting it at the expo , but didn't . I cant understand that. Still love Springfield but im sour on that line. That said, like every cartridge, it gains velocity out of longer barrels to a certain point. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. I dont own any Springfield armory but it seems they do one dumbass thing on every gun they build, but different every time. The pistol is supplied with flip-up front and rear sights that sit relatively tall when folded and dont take up much rail space. In the same breath, the gun is compact enough to enhance its nimbleness, yet big enough to ensure the cartridges ballistic integrity. 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Maybe i'll sell the .308 if they ship me a new replacement and get an M1A instead, but i'm not exactly dying to give that money right back to them after this fiasco. I assumed shooting this gun would be like holding a concussion grenade in my teeth, but I was pleasantly surprised thanks to the Hate Brake. Honestly, theres not a ton to ballyhoo on the pistol other than it runs, dependably so. Its very handy. "If I'd known I'd live this long I'd have taken better care of myself.". Nevertheless, we were able to score A-zone hits with all 12 rounds fired before time ran out. Depending on where you stand in the stabilization debate, this could prove a dealbreaker. Fitting right into this slot is the Saint Victor 300 Blackout Pistol. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. In fact, it wasnt that long ago that SIG was in a similar position. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. | Support gear used:***Splatterburst Targetshttps://amzn.to/2Kera7g***Peltor Sport RangeGuard Hearing Protectionhttps://amzn.to/2LsLUbXThe Springfield XDM Elit. Like all things in life, this entails tradeoffs. Every MCX also comes with an ambidextrous safety selector and magazine release for righties and lefties. Got to check one out a few days ago at my LGS who's a Tier 1 Sig dealer. Anything under 10.5" and not only do you run the risk of a strike but you are also going to get a ton of unburnt powder trashing the inside of the can. Looks pretty sweet . AR-15 Carbines for Less Than $1300: The Winner is a Saint Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. I want to buy a PDWWhat takes the cake? | Sniper's Hide Forum For a company many people thought was years late to the AR party, Springfield Armory has done an amazing job in seizing a substantial percentage of the AR-15 marketplace, and theyre not slowing down. One new winner* is announced every week! Honey badger .300bo 5. So move along . As to the tale of the tape, the gun has a 10.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel (1:7 twist) and comes in at a very agile 5.8 pounds. Instead of being located at 3 oclock and 9 oclock, additional Keymod holes were located in a line upon the surface area that angled upward to the top rail (10 oclock and 2 oclock). With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. On the M400, there is an extension that adds surface area in an L-shape, making it much easier to operate. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] Sig Sauer M400 Tread 5.56 NATO [MSRP $949] - 16 Stainless Steel Barrel, Free-Floating M-LOK Handguard, . The Saint was the only carbine in the test that listed a heavy tungsten buffer among its specs, and it showed by delivering less felt recoil to the shooter. We noticed that across all choices of ammunition the Saint produced the most velocity from each round. The fit between the top and bottom end of the CMMG Mk4T was admirably tight, yet the takedown pin was easy to operate. Build a gun that works and, by gum, the world will beat a path to your door. Both rifles have a similar price, $809 for the Saint with discount code and $799 for the Tread. During our action tests, we found the fixed front sight a little distracting, even though we had it aligned (co-witnessed) with our Romeo4 red-dot sight. The idea was to replace 9mm submachine guns for support troops and special operations units with something more powerful that wasnt a full-sized, Tactical Life Gun Magazine: Gun news, gun reviews and gun magazines for gun enthusiasts, military and law enforcement, You use of this website constitutes and manifests your acceptance of our, ENTER TO WIN > Free Gun Friday for your chance to WIN the SIG Sauer P320 AXG Legion and Black Hills HoneyBadger Ammo, Anderson Manufacturing Kiger-9c Pro: Upgrades and EDC Ready, Stow it and Go: The Volquartsen 22 LR VT2 Takedown Rifle. To test this, I fed the PDW Black Hills 77-grain TMK load in addition to more traditional offerings. Is there anything sweeter than these mighty mites? Probably 2k rounds through it and has always gone bang. The only spot on the Rattler is its trigger. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. Over ten trigger pulls we never got the same reading twice. Before we jump headlong into what the market holds, perhaps we should touch upon why you might want to go a 300 Blackout pistol. This test was performed cold, one and done with no makeups. It also directs sound and blast forward, away from the shooter and provides some flash reduction. I am reminded that short barrels are inherently more accurate as there is less flexing during the recoil cycle. Interestingly, Sig is one of the gunmakers that subscribe to faster-than-usual twist rates for 300 Blackout1:5. Our Team Said: The CMMG Mk4T showed extremely good balance. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? The metal loop at the heel of buttplate was free swinging. Sig MCX rattler 5.5" 300bo 2. What is it? This video does make me feel better about Springfield. By 5george31 in forum Rifles Replies: 92 Last Post: November 3rd, 2016, 05:28 AM. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The issue is, get it wrong, send a bullet yawling at the muzzle and youre contending with endcap and baffle strikes in your suppressor. The ambidextrous controls worked quite well, and the safety lever on the off hand did not interfere with the shooter, be he right-handed or left-handed. But the safety and the magazine release were ambidextrous. It's an entry level rifle that's pretty much designed to sell accessories. In 2017, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a Request For Information, basically asking someone to design a .300 Blackout PDW top end for them that a soldier could slap onto a standard M4 lower to create a concealable AR-based PDW. The handguard is crap, but I replaced mine with one I found here on the EE. SAINT Victor rifles are designed to be masterpieces of performance and precision. The TaurusTX 22 Compact delivers class-leading reliability, capacity, and shootability in a 22 LR platform, and it's cut for a slide-mounted mini red dot. With the desire for a more up-to-date AR-15, we went shopping and found that we didnt have to break the bank just get comfortable within a price range of about $900 to $1250 dollars. There is longer rifling in the barrel of the handgun currently on my hip than there is in this PDW. Looking past the outdated grip and buttstock, this is a very good rifle that deserved a much better trigger. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. The lower is mil-spec, so an upper change is no different than any other lower. With most loads, a 9-inch barrel is enough bore for a complete powder burn. While the plastic handguard and the buttstock showed a little bit of play, fit and function of the more important parts of the M400 Classic were exceptional. The BCM Gunfighter buttstock offered sleek lines with no protruding levers that might catch on gear, such as the straps of a chest rig. Furthermore, Sig has a much higher percentage of parts and weapons produced in house, which allows them to control quality much more closely, where as Springfield assembles and builds only a fraction of their product line, AFAIK. It started expanding at about 6 inches and fragmented at 15, leaving just the lead core and base at 26 inches. This is the MCX Rattler. This is a 100-yard rifle. Perfectly tailored to man the ramparts of your home. Eventually, ammo manufacturers answered the call, and now dozens offer 300 Blackout loads for a variety of uses. Caleb Giddings, Marketing Manager at Taurus, introduces the all-new TaurusTX 22 Compact. MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. Whereas the SIG Sauer presented direct pressure against a solid object, the Saints trigger offered a subtle compression before reaching its breaking point. However, moving to the Barnes, Hornady and Lehigh Defense rounds changed things. Surrounding the barrel and piston system is a 5-inch, free-floating M-LOK handguard. Filter SIG MCX . Working the charging handle was smooth and revealed no linear movement. Fun as all get out to rattle off the range. Decibels dont drop like flies with every load. SIG Sauer Introduces the New SIG Tread Snakebite SE. The first and third pics are the rifle I examined, but the second isn't. Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? I Have the 1st Sig's M400 Tread and it's a nice gun , It shoots great and built very good . 5.56 Rattler? | SIG Talk When not at his press or the range he can be found chasing mule deer around the Rocky Mountains. Detent at the safety was heavy and secure without any rough edges. A final note, the Protector is a very shootable pistol, thanks in part to its heft (a shade under 6 pounds). With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. If the general shape of Springfields PDW looks a little familiar to you, theres a reason for that. Upon an audible start signal, the shooter raised the carbine from low ready (about a 30-degree angle to the horizon), switched off the safety, and engaged each target with only one round before moving on. Just Got this in my e-mail . Sorry for long story .Your CZ Bren are pretty cool looking guns , I got the CZ Evo3 in OD green with SB 3 tactical folding brace on it . Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308, https://www.surplusammo.com/categori-308-mags.html, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and . The gas block is pinned in place. During our action test, we simply ignored the sights and read the dot. Furthermore, the gun is outfitted with Wilsons proprietary handguard, a fairly light affair that is M-Lok compatible and features a 4-inch accessory rail, as well as quick-detachment sling mounts. Many contend a 1:8 twist will stabilize heavy subsonic bullets. Youll probably need hearing protection with sub- and supersonic ammo. About every 20 to 25 shots, the trigger would pull straight through. To extend it, just give the brace a vigorous yank. This rifle also features a free float M-LOK handguard, ambidextrous controls and a rotating bolt system. Substantial in some circumstances. The new big bore pistols feature industry-first capacity, with a standard 15-round capacity and 22+1 rounds of 10mm or 18+1 rounds of .45 ACP from the extended magazines. But thats what your 20-inch barreled baby is for, right? I would use the 110-grain Barnes TAC-TX load and never feel undergunned. The result was more shots fired within the allotted time limit. SAINT VICTOR PIST 300BLK 30+1. OK, so they want in sending rounds waaaay downrange. Saint Victor .308 competition | The Armory Life Forum The upper circumference was reduced, guiding the index finger to the trigger. And After shooting the CZ 75 Tatical sport orange I was in love . For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I realize in the current climate you may have to take what you can get. S pringfield Armory rocked the firearms community with the introduction of the SAINT rifle in 2016. Neither rifle is "top tier," so to speak. Both short-barreled rifle (SBR) and pistol variants of the MCX Rattler are available. We liked this because it simply wipes clean, making it easy to keep track of debris buildup and wear. Caliber + 300 BLK; 5.56 NATO; 7.62x39 . I run the SIG SRD762TI on my Rattler. However, the range in resistance spanned from about 6.75 pounds to almost 8.0 pounds. Wed prefer a free-float sling attachment, but the Saint is handsome and well made at a good price. Anything beyond 100 yards and that starts to fade. While many people often think of AR pistols as just short-barreled carbines, in this case, the pistol appellation is quite apt. Let's pick up there. Rather, the AR-15 is an ideal defensive weapon necessary for the legally armed defense-conscious American. The only difference are the built in QD mounts to any other lower. If we were to describe the bolt lock/release assembly as a seesaw, the typical lower end could be seen as being constructed without the seat. But I would take the Sig over the Springfield every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. The CMMGs single-finger-groove plastic grip is almost extinct because the divider can be uncomfortable and never really seems to be in the right place. One set of Keymod holes was located on the underside at 6 oclock. The 194-grain Lehigh Defense ME bullet was the only subsonic to expand. Barrel is Chromemoly Vanadium, Melonite coated inside and out, 1:8 twist and a NATO chamber. The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. At the rear of the receiver, youll see the Maxim Defense SCW brace. We really liked the handguard. (Most folks will never see such high velocities out of the 5.5 inch barrel.) From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. The SIG MCX Rattler is an incredibly handy rifle that's easy to conceal. Apr 24, 2017 At first glance, I thought the PDW was ridiculous in both appearance and performance. They are more compact and lighter than ever, Making it the ideal weapon for Rapid deployment and close quarter work. New! Boasting nice crisp break, the trigger also has a short reset allowing the gun to run fast. From the beginning, we discovered an inordinate amount of creep in the trigger. But I will check out Sig's new Tread SE to see if I like it Yeah. Its perfect for indoor situations where 25 yards is a long shot and overpenetration is a concern. Love this gun . Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. Top 5 Suppressor Brands - Firearms News For example, Ive seen U.S. Department of State Diplomatic Security Service special agents wielding them in the field when guarding high-value targets. Since then, the company expanded the line of guns to include a range of variations that fall into three main lines. Most familiar with ARs know you dont have to go out and buy one specially chambered for the want-to-be 7.6239mm clone. SIG MCX Rattler SBR . I actually sold my Sig m400 patrol 5.56 , And My Sig P320 . All Rights Reserved. All three-rifle barrels were marked 5.56 NATO. We tend to the 7.5-inch SBA3 model, given its the rare smallster in the caliber that doesnt demand a kings ransom. No, but it was never designed to be. This website contains many older reviews. I can't get my hands on the DD5 which I really prefer. Thanks Bio. As our tests continued and the trigger broke in, we sometimes experienced only one stopping point before break. To find out what it was like to operate these guns at speed, we visited the Impact Zone Range in Hempstead, Texas for some timed close-quarters fire. We applied a snap-on buttpad from Limbsaver and was pleasantly surprised at how much more comfortable it was to shoot. Meet the all-new Taurus Judge Executive Grade, a revolver featuring a hand-polished satin finish, presentation-grade wood grips, a brass rod front sight and an exceptional hand-tuned trigger. I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. Camp Guns: Sometimes Perfect, Other Times Not But Often Essential! One of the ways that we suspect the suggested retail price of the Saint was held down was by utilizing an A1 front-sight assembly. As a result, the American Tactical recently announced the company will offer two new bolt-action rifle systems from Black Creek Labs. To keep my support hand from creeping up on the muzzle, I added an M-LOK-compatible Kinesthetic Angled Grip (KAG) from Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) to the forend. I love my Evo .. You must log in or register to reply here. Their latest addition is the Saint Edge PDW AR pistol, and Im sure it will get its large slice of the AR pie. He called it a stutter. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. PDWs are an established, in-between class of firearm. Dont be fooled, a 16-inch carbine in Blackout will outperform a 9-inch Blackout pistol. Suppressed though, that Saint Pistol is terrific. check out the, Welcome to the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Forum, we hope you like what you find here and we strongly encourage you to. 7 Things You Need to Know Before Buying an AR Pistol A few times the bolt wouldnt lock back after firing the last round with the SilencerCo Omega 9K in place. The Sig Rattler would fit the description of what your looking for perfectly with a 5.5 in .300blk barrel and no buffer tube. First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? (CA Pushing the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM rounds to an average velocity of 2440 fps, the SIG Sauer ammunition, marked Match Grade Rifle, was still nevertheless well below the 2750 fps printed on the box. I wrote SilencerCo to ask about the Hybrid compatibility. The Black Hills 60-grain V-Max rounds produced 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the 77-grain SIG Sauer rounds printed 0.9-inch-wide groups. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. I fired the PDW at both an indoor and outdoor range on a cloudy day. Ive tested full-size rifles that werent any more accurate than that. Taurus Marketing Manager Caleb Giddings highlights the features of the new Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum, a purpose-built revolver with a 10.5-inch barrel and an effective recoil-taming brake, with Guns & Ammo Executive Editor Joe Kurtenbach. Comfortable to hold, the handguard offered the most versatility of our three rifles. At first glance, the $1250 SIG Sauer RM400 Classic looked like a standard model with only a flat-top rail above the receiver to break up the profile. I have not shot the Tread, I have handled and inspected it though. So had to go home and think about it , while driving she asked which one I liked , i like them all but of course . To the average shooter the price tag doesnt quite reflect it, but the Protector is top-shelf Wilson Combats entry-level 300 Blackout pistol option. Sig Sauer SIGMCX Rattler 300 AAC Blackout PMCX-300B-5B-TAP-PSB vs The Black Hills 77-grain OTM was best, producing 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM ammunition produced an average five-shot group measuring 0.9 inch across. Essentially it boils down to performance and suppressibility. I own the Springfield Saint Victor. It began in earnest in the late 1980s. Springfield Armory of Illinois has been producing its own versions of the iconic M1A rifle for many years, but Springfield, like several other manufacturers, is known primarily as makers of handguns, or for that matter bolt-action rifles. Our Suppressor Guru, seen here with a SIG Sauer SRD-762 on a SIG Rattler, provides some pointers. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. Springfield currently doesnt have any plans for a version in .300 AAC Blackout, but (hint hint) it would be a very smart move, as the .300 BLK performs much better out of short barrels than the 5.56. Maximum bullet weight was considered to be 69 grains. I will not consider another firearm from the Saint line ever again. Visually, this made them less obvious. Now weve got Springfields PDW in a similarly sized envelope, namely albeit chambered in 5.56 NATO. It provides added backpressure for reliable cycling. All Rights Reserved. But it was visible when we used the Romeo4 red-dot scope. For targeting, I installed a set of Daniel Defenses fixed sights, as well as a Sig Sauer ROMEO3 reflex sight in a tall mount for co-witnessing. And I also used a LaRue Tactical offset mount to install a SureFire M312 Vampire Scout, which produces white and IR light.